Clean Freak Show Straight Talk With Jeff Cross, What else you need to know to take your Cleaning Business to the next Level.


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We are fanatical. we are obsessed. we are freaks. oh, let's go. hey, jeff. how you doing?

I'm good. how about you? i'm great. i'm great. uh, this one introduced everyone to you. jeff cross with, uh, media director at I s s a we just met a few minutes ago. nice to meet you.

We've shared a lot of messages back and forth. first time talking. I guess from that intro video. I have to become a freak.

Is that right? absolutely. yeah. yeah, it's a clean freak. but what I found is, uh, from my own personal, uh, success.

I've only been successful, and I become fanatical, obsessed in a good way. freakish focused. so that's kind of my messages. you know, it's, uh, you know, if you put something in front of it's a good thing, right? like, if you're freaked, don't necessarily taking a good way. but you say you're a clean freak.

Yeah, I am right from a health freak. it's good. so, yeah, just a little tongue in cheek there. um, so, yeah.

Glad to have you on the on the show. I appreciate you being here. you and I have talked many times back and forth through social media, linked in predominantly.

Um, but I was watching watching your show straight talk the other day. you had paul wolf free on there, um, with rochester midland talking about file catholics, and I thought, hey, you know what?

Um, let's reach out to jeff and have them on the show, because, uh, we have a lot of synergies and and you and you wear many hats, so I don't know anyone.

Everyone that's watching this is going to know exactly all the different segments that you look after, but they all are relevant and have value they bring to those in the cleaning industry. so let's just first of all this talk about straight talk for those of the what is straight talk and what's the goal of it? and I just heard it so about when the pandemic started, I wanted to do more multimedia projects.

Straight talk is that it's a it's a webcast. it's pre recorded. so nothing live or nerve wracking like we're doing right now. so we record it.

I can edit it out a little bloopers out. sometimes i'll leave those bloopers in, but no better time than a pandemic to start a project like that. I figured so, um, i've done probably 100 and 40 episodes.

Guess I know we passed 100 a few months ago. sometimes i'll do one a day or a couple, sometimes some days none, but it's simply a platform like you've got here, where we get someone on to talk about what they do, and maybe an industry topic.

The one you mentioned with paul. you know, I learned some stuff on that one, so that happens. um, as a journalist like you are, we just ask the questions and hopefully we'll understand where they're going with the responses.

Um, but but it's a it's a platform where we can get on video and talk, push it out through social media and our newsletters and be able to see that people are actually watching it. so, you know, we print our magazines and we know people read them, but we don't know exactly how many how long they were holding the magazine or looking at a digital publication. but with multimedia and videos and the power of youtube, where I host those, um, it works really well, yeah, I really enjoyed. I saw the one to have a chance to watch it, but I saw it in your feet, on on vaccines.

I'm going to watch that. that looks interesting. um, the reason why I do the lives quite honestly is it is you know, there's a peace of mind with recording it, editing out the little bloopers and posting it, but with linked in particular, which is where the majority of the audiences for for me anyhow in the cleaning industry is, uh, they won't allow you to post anything longer than 10 minutes, but we do alive.

They do, and it can be an hour or whatever, whatever it is. so, um, so that's predominant. why I do it. um, it's kind of fun. kind of keeps me on my toes.

Kind of like toastmasters. you know? he's got your on. so wait, this is going to go longer than 10 minutes?

No, just 10 minutes. yeah, absolutely. so okay. so straight talk is the podcast where you're kind of educating. I think you just said I remember for us on camera not but, uh, over 100 episodes already in in a year. that's that's that's busy.

Yeah. finally, we're going to talk about the number. I would have counted them today, but I know we passed 100 a few months ago, so i'm guessing 1 40 seems about right without without looking at my channel.

Um, yeah. so some of them are. i've had some long ones. i've had some. I did an interview with ii crc leadership, and that one probably went i'm thinking 40 minutes. that's pretty long for a recording, you know?

So I find that the shorter, uh, the videos, the more engagement you get. but people have a lot to say. there's some important topics out there. so, you know, 5 to 10 minutes seems to be a sweet spot there to hit a single topic or two.

Definitely not an in depth interview like you're doing on your show. yeah, yeah. I mean, I know the attention span of people me included. kind of like, as long as a goldfish, right about seven seconds or something.

But what I find interesting is, uh, the dazzle over place. because if you watch, I know their news reports. but if you watch, like the room report or ben shapiro or joe rogan or whatever these guys are going an hour, hour and a half and and depending on it, i'm watching it, depending on the topic. of course. so, um I guess it's it really depends on the topic.

Your audience, you know, it helps. it helps to be famous. yeah, that's true. I think that would help viewers.

So you and I have to work on that. we'll get that? yeah, I got a long way to go, but this is a great start with you on the show, so I appreciate it.

So straight talk is the podcast. that's awesome. um, and then your cmm tell me what is what's the mm. okay, so so i'm the media director of all of our brands, which includes straight talk.

My, my my online show. um, and then we have cnn, which is cleaning and maintenance management magazine. and amy richardson is the managing editor of that publication.

We have clean facts. amanda hosey is the manager of that magazine. and that's where I came into the cleaning industry. as far as media.

I was the editor of clean facts for many years. um and then we have a publication called isis a today, which is basically a member benefit publication. fry us to say, um, so the members get to print, and, uh, and others can get it online, but only the current issue they can't get the archives wants to remember.

So three media brands that have print digital we have websites, and we do webcasts as well and other projects with those. so I have a great editorial team.

We have editors, designers, um, those that run our daily news online. we have a daily news feed and clean facts, has a twice a week or has once a week news for the cleaning industry and every other week for restoration.

So we do it all, um, and we're doing print, which is still something from talking to readers. they still want the print magazine. yeah, I find pretty interesting because, uh I mean, it might be off topic a little bit, but I continually buy books, and I have it on my kindle, but 60% I order it and get the book to i'd like to have the book.

I like to have the magazine. I just I just do, uh you're looking for something for you guys. what did he say about that? and I just find it easier to grab the book, you know, it was in that book and and find it as opposed to, you know?

So, yeah, there's there's both every media company, so give this some thought needs to think about reader habits. so we have our print magazines.

We have now are our webcast where people can watch and just like a t v show. and we have our digital products. so I like kindle books. I don't read novels or anything unless it's on my device.

But I also subscribe to four print newspapers, the wall street journal, usa today, my local to newspapers that come to my door every morning.

That's how I read my news besides online. so call it weird. everyone has their way. but I what I like about our isis a media team is we provide all of that from one department.

So it doesn't matter how you like to consume your information, we're going to have a way to get it to you. yeah, and that is important. I mean, when someone someone that's watching, actually, you know, um, there's so many diverse, uh, people now. so you got you know, someone could be watching a show, like in their twenties. they could be in their fifties, and everyone has a different preference. you're you're right on how they learn.

Uh, this this, as an example, will be on the podcast, and they won't necessarily see us, but they'll hear us, and a lot of people will listen to that because they want to use their data when they're driving to work on podcast as an example, right? so it's which one should you be on if you can be on all.

But if you can't pick the one that you're most comfortable with, you know, i'm most comfortable on camera. some people most comfortable writing it, so yeah, good. good advice.

Um, so where would someone go? ah, rather than going to all four individual sections, is there one hub source they can go to where they can get all the content or the magazine or whatever might be?

Yes, there is. so I say dot com go there and you'll see a media tab and that has a drop down to all of our publications. so I say dot com is where you go.

Just find the media part and you'll see the magazine straight talk. you'll see everything that we offer their, uh, news feeds as well. so if you want to keep up on industry news, we have that.

And is it associated with any way in any way with clean link? no, that's not us. that's a different company. okay? yeah, because I didn't know that. so I will definitely go there and have a drop down menu. I that's a good good, uh, good to know.

Just google it. you'll find us. yeah, you're not. you're not. you're not hard to find for sure.

So what I wanted to talk to you about today to is, as we move into I want to kind of get your thoughts on the industry the way things are changing.

Um, I mean, can you imagine a year ago that you'd be encouraged to walk into a bank of the mask? right. but you would.

You know what? everywhere you go says, wash your hands like, wow, you know, um elevated our industry for sure before.

So that's why I want to get into. but before we get into that, where you see the industry going and and what us in the industry can do to maintain the momentum maybe a little bit about you, I mean, most of us don't grow up dreaming of getting in the cleaning industry. we kinda stumble or fall upon it. at least I did.

How did you get into the industry? what's your story? yeah, it's really tough to do this and not ask you the questions, but i'll answer them.

Um, yeah, that's normally i'm the one asking the questions so really quick because I could tell the story. I told you many times I got my start working for a daily newspaper.

Um, that was my journalism start. I dreamed of being the woodward and bernstein of the world. and if you know who that is, your your old like me that broke the watergate scandal.

I wanted to be that kind of reporter. not a realistic viewpoint. um, had a family. a friend of mine was in the carpet cleaning industry.

And I was struggling, you know, kids and new career working for a newspaper, they don't pay anything.

I tell you what newspaper work was was very low pay. so I i got I got away from that and I got into the cleaning industry and on my own carpet cleaning company did carpet and upholstery cleaning light restoration for about 15 years and about 12 years into it, uh, john downey, who is the founder of clean facts?

Um, he saw some stuff. I was posting on the bulletin board for clean facts with a buddy of mine. um, it was burberry and a latina. it was kind of a comedy column we would put on social media, and he saw that liked it and invited us to write for clean facts. so we started that, and eventually I started right for clean facts, you know, still ran my carpet cleaning company was writing articles like many do today.

They submit articles, we run them, you see them in there. and eventually I sold my company. I wanted to get back into journalism to some fashion.

And interesting enough, I sent a note to the editor of clean facts. do you guys need more articles? more things written. and they liked what I did because I was on time.

You know, I came from a journalist's background. I met deadlines and they said, well, we need an editor, actually. are you interested in like, I didn't expect that.

I just figured i'd write more articles. um, you know, once in a while and, uh, talk to them. they hired me. and that's my story.

I mean, it's so so. it was a good fit because I know the cleaning industry. i've been in the trenches. I pushed the wand. i've sucked water out of basements.

Um, all the stuff that our readers do every day and i've done and I became an icsc instructor as well. so I would say this, though I i've learned more about cleaning since I gave it up because, yeah, I became a student of it. I started to pay more attention to the details and the technical. so you know, you can you can teach someone how to push them on back and forth.

But the deeper stuff is something you have to really study. and so there are many out there that do that. they do the physical work. they might just own the business. they just run the business, which is gritty.

But understanding the background and how things work was something I learned later in my career. yeah, when you say that because as I got into teaching, teaching and that with the online platform and stuff like that, um, I found that I got better and more educated as well, because you start to understand why you do what you do. like, there's a book I read, and, uh, he was a wrestler and he didn't really, and he's great.

But he didn't really know what he was doing, what he was doing until he started coaching. and and, uh and so yeah, it brings that. and then it's also teaching as well.

It's a great way to learn as well, right? it it just plants in your head, easier to. so, yeah, I understand what you're talking about there, and I find I find interesting. when I got a couple years into cleaning carpet and upholstery, I think back of how much I did not know. and it's a scary thought because, you know, back then if I clean the carpet, I knew it was well when it smells like a wet dog and I was halfway done with the room, um, so I feel bad for some of my early customers. but I gotta tell you, it just reinforces the need for education. whether you get it in a classroom, you get it on shows like this, you get it on youtube.

Of course, there's some bad education as well, but learn how to do it and do it right. and that's the key. yeah, there's nothing like like actually doing it as well I just made me think of grade five, and my teacher was trying to teach you the difference between transparent and translucent.

I couldn't get it. and he just took me to the room and he showed me something that was translucent, translucent? that's like needles transparent.

And, you know, I don't know what made me think that, but, you know, I had visual. I was like, oh, and I never forgot it.

Um, so, yeah, it's interesting how we all get into the industry, always like to ask, because everyone has so many different ways that they entered the industry.

And then for so many of us, some come and go very quickly. but the large majority kind of, you know, are in it for a long time. there's a lot of lifers.

People start in the early twenties and I was 22. 23. um, you know, heading into the 25th, 26th year.

So, uh, but I never thought in all my life I thought it would happen in 2030 years. and I thought that janitorial cleaning would start to rise up in, um society.

As more and more people in the population group as it went from, you know, six beyond the 7,000,000,008 billion, there'll be more and more disease, and it would become more of a focus. I want to give me your lowest bed type of thing.

Um, but this last year, with covid, I don't know how much is going to change, but it's definitely going to change it because we have we have people that we just have everyday people now saying you need to wash your hands, wash your hand sanitizer, ppe wear a mask, all these things that you and I and what have you have done or practice or taught for for years.

So my question to you is, is what do you see? as as with the pandemic, I guess we're still in the midst of it. I guess we start to see a light at the end of the tunnel, so I don't know where we're at.

Hopefully, we're gonna post soon. but how do you see this change in the industry for the good or for and or for the negative in the long term?

Big question. good question. um, so I have to say, is the worldwide cleaning industry association were in many countries around the world.

Um, we are slogan is changing the way the world views cleaning the pandemic is doing that. so that's been our mission, and we've been working that and finding success with that for many, many years.

But nothing will move someone or move a population like a pandemic. and so it's been proven, and science is paying attention to the value of cleaning and disinfecting, and we've seen growth in that within. I used to say we have the global bio risk advisory council g back, and we now have accreditation for facilities and services, standardizing the way that things are done to make the built environment a healthier place without the pandemic.

That would still happen, but it's definitely brought awareness to what our mission is, and we're seeing results from that. I think that there might be a dip in everyone's perception of clean once this pandemic is over.

But we're going to see other issues coming up where laser focused on health, on infections and microbes, you might say. so what we're going through is going to keep that top of mind.

But, um, what we're gonna see is more money spent on cleaning and disinfecting of all kinds. we're going to see people paying more attention to it.

We're going to see those we clean for, you know, maybe one day we're not wearing masks like bank robbers. um, we're going to see people noticing what we're doing and valuing that.

Now. the united states has some up behind other countries in that if you go to some countries in europe, you see an elevation of the cleaning industry more so than in the united states.

So every country is going to be a bit different. but what the cleaning industry does is a health benefit. and in the past, it was not thought that way. we, you know, many even that worked in the cleaning industry, didn't think much of themselves and what they did, they might go to a party. and someone would say, what do you do? well, um, you know, do I want to answer that?

Yes. now you do. um, everyone has a part. you know, it seems I talked to stephen askin, who's considered the father of green cleaning in a in a straight talk once, and he said, isn't it silly how we have to teach people to sing the the birthday song twice while they washed their hands like, yeah, that is kind of silly.

Um, it's common knowledge. we should wash our hands well, it's going to be common that all of these cleaning practices going on have to be done just like hand washing.

It's not going to be something that you maybe want the lowest bidder, or you just cancel the cleaning service because you can't afford it. can't do that anymore.

This pandemic has has changed things for us, and as industry leaders, we can't let that stop. we have to keep pushing that. and once the pandemics over people like, well, you know, there's no danger we'll we'll reduce cleaning well, we'll save money on the budget.

No, we can't see that happening. we have to keep doing what we're doing because it's proven that it works. so cleaning for appearance will always be a thing.

You know, we're doing a carpet care webcast on april 6 with cmm, and it's about cleaning for health and appearance, cleaning for appearances, what your customers want, you know, when they call you, you know it looks dirty. it's time to call it spent five years but looks dirty now, um, we have to get past that and clean for health.

And that's a tough sell until the pandemic. yeah, no. and it's still I mean, yeah, it's it's it's still gonna be a tough sell in the in. the way um, give you an example is just over a year ago now I did a linkedin live, and it just was it just resonated with me so much I walked into, um uh, a hair salon.

It was my first time going and you walked in and there was nothing on the first floor, but you had to go to the elevator, maybe 50 ft, and then you go up to the floor.

So as I walked in that room, it just stunk like heisley stunk of pine, right? and I did a live on linkedin. I was like, you know, it's just stinks. it affects me thinking this way, all these things I did my life.

I finished my life. I have even finished yet to, you know, push the elevator up to the elevator and a lady walks in, and she she says, i'm standing right here, she says.

Boy, I wish my house smell like this, right? and it's like just talking. and so we we have that that challenge on people wanting smell and that in facilities so they know it's clean.

But the cleaning for health and this pandemic, I think, is going to help people recognize maybe not to that degree, but to the degree of of how important cleaning is for health.

And I don't think everyone associated it with that. yes, the smells, the appearance. that's always going to be a factor.

You know, when I was a carpet cleaner, a little drop of, uh, lemon oil in your rents agent just a drop to give that sent their like you might you might just spray some water and they'll be like, man looks great because it smells good.

Well, it's not clean yet, but thank you, ma'am. the thing is, that's always gonna be there. but we have to communicate the need. what we're talking about today with the decision makers of every building, every organization and we're seeing with our with the I s s a government advocacy efforts, john older fleets that we're seeing some work with government and getting more involvement from from that sector to make all these things happen and to keep the awareness of cleaning at the top. so, leadership, you know, that's that's where you have to go to and make sure they don't forget what does make a clean building.

And if you're building is not clean and disinfected, you know what liability might you have for not keeping it that way? I would hate to be a building owner or a facility manager, and something's traced back to my building and something happened because maybe I cut back on some cleaning process or product or something like that.

Absolutely. you know, my coming from canada in canada here, and I don't know how much it is like in the states, but some of the things here that are a problem is a very low barrier to entry for people get in the cleaning industry, right? anyone can just kind of start start up and, um uh, the amount of people that are like give me a bit with the low and they're going with the lowest bed, and and, uh and a lot of people are like a bigger companies will get the contract. let's have a national bank and then subcontracted.

And if you if you get what those people but those small companies being paid its criminal. so i'm hoping through this that there comes some type of not a mandated but a encouraged program through I s s a or something where someone can get certified that our company is certified, meaning have at least been told, the eight fold fold your cloth eight times. you've at least been told not to spray the disinfectant to the air.

You know those type of things because my experience, a lot of the training, comes from the distributors. um, at least in my world, it comes from the distributors, which is not bad, which comes from the manufacturers.

Um, but having some type of a system in place, that kind of helps people have some type of a standard whoever they're hiring. as you know, at least got something. do you see that happening through this now, anytime in the future?

Absolutely. there are with within ice to say we have a cleaning management institute, c m i, and education. even though it's been virtual during the pandemic for the most part, the demand has been high.

That awareness has driven people to to have a thirst for education to take these online events. and everyone wants to come back to the classroom as well. which is going to happen.

And we do plan for that. we have our g back online fundamentals course for cleaning and disinfecting. um, find. and then we're gonna talk about that. I would have got the numbers, but thousands and thousands of technicians have gone through that course, and we've had sponsors of it.

Uh, kimberly clark was one of our scholarship sponsors for that. so so many people saw that and saw it as a a solution for what they needed. but it just tells you that, um, education, certification, all of these things, they're going to be in demand, and it's going to continue.

Don't you ever been to the iss? a show? uh, some 16 to 18,000 people go to that, and it's a buzz of excitement where people look and they see all this stuff.

You know, it's like a kid in a candy store. toys everywhere. this tool, that tool, I wish I could buy it all um, that's that feeling, that same enthusiasm you see at these trade shows like that that needs to continue.

That needs to go outside the trade show and just be part of us. I agree with your thoughts on government. no one wants more government influence, especially taxes.

But but, you know, being mandated to do some things that are in a positive activity to keep things cleaner will benefit our industry. and so we're seeing that that that function, that that that activity happening where governments seen us and paying more attention to us, things grind slowly, as you know, in that regard.

Uh, maybe not in canada as much as the united states, but but that's something that that we see coming down the road. yeah, that's that's awesome. in you, you grab a great point, which leads us into that of you guys being the hub. and you go go to the website, find out about the c. m. I and other programs which leads us into tell us a little bit about, uh, this show this year, remember? when is it is it happening?

Where is it? when is it? and I know it's in vegas yeah. yes, it's gonna be a live event. I was talking to inform our partner that puts on the show, and they just went to vegas to check out the venue.

And it's november 15th through 18th in las vegas. and from what they've discovered, it's it's looking real positive as far as how things are right now.

And we see the vaccines happening. uh, i'm gonna be eligible on thursday to get my own vaccine. so, uh, I think we're going to see events this year across the board b well attended because people are really tired of staying at home and they want to go to a live event.

I'm not a fan of las vegas, but, you know, i'm looking forward to going and being part of the show. I normally have a class or two to teach at those, um, but seeing everyone come together for that event will be a real positive for us as far as a shot in the arm pun intended, I guess, to come back to normal.

Well, you know what? it's funny you say that because, uh, I was at the last show. um, like a year and a half ago in vegas and, um, everyone i'm talking to there's a lot of people saying, oh, i'm going. i'm going.

Where is this time? two years ago, i'd say. are you going? i've decided. yeah. i'm not sure. mike, man, everyone i've talked to oh, if it's on, i'm going.

And i've talked about 10 people like that. some manufacturers and some just, uh, sales guys and things like that. i'm gonna go for sure, as long as i'm allowed across the border right now.

Right now, it's, uh it's still close, but I i have high hopes in six months from now, you know that that will be gone, but it's always a good show. but this year I tend to agree with you. there's gonna be a huge emphasis on education learning, uh, making sure that we you know, I heard of saying that, you know, if this this happens to us the first time, you know, it's like, you know, like businesses shutting down people's.

If it happens again, we're not prepared. we don't have some type of a plan in place, you know, shame on us. we need to get prepared to me. we've got surprised this time it happens again. so learning education, being able to answer customers' questions.

Um, which leads me into the 11 question to ask you about as we wind down. um uh, i'm really noticing an over abundance of disinfectant going on out in the marketplace and that, but i'm also noticing an awareness of it and and, uh, people starting to look at healthier options on disinfecting.

And I think that something's gonna come out of this. I think it's going to force some newer technologies. i'm disinfecting and and stuff, um, as opposed to the traditional type of chemistry that that that's been out there. what's your thoughts on? just more curious from a professional standpoint, if you notice that as well, or what your thoughts are so you need to have on your show a couple of folks from g back, um, dr gavin macgregor skinner would be great to ask that question of.

I'm gonna make an attempt to answer it. but if you want someone captivating, he's an australian who works for us to say a good friend of mine, who who's an expert in all of this and get back now part of ice to say we they emerged with us before this pandemic happened. if they hadn't done that, I don't know where we'd be with what we're doing for the industry without g beck. so fantastic group.

But gavin would be a great one to have on your show. but to answer your question, I see the same thing this endless from the epa is, is grown, and I don't I don't know if it's so much that there's so many new products.

There are some new ones, but there's so many products out there that that the epa recognizes that work on in activating the coronavirus disinfecting, which means to kill the virus.

Um, that maybe the list grew because people put put the application in for that. that's a great question. um, spraying technology has improved electrostatic sprain. I mean, a few years ago, it was there, but who really talked about it?

Now it's the norm to apply the products and get it evenly around an object. so, yeah, the products list is huge. and when you look at that list, you're gonna see a lot of things there that you're like, really, I didn't know that was a disinfectant.

Yes, it was, um, it's on my shelf to you know, I didn't know it was it was that, but lots of options. but I look at tools and chemistry and all the things you're mentioning.

They are important, but they're just tools. you know how the professionals use them. um, you know, too many times we might see someone spraying disinfectant on a dirty surface. well, clean it first.

You know, we have to clean and disinfect if you need to apply some disaffected in advance because it's so bad you have to that's fine. but you're still going to clean and then disinfect as a cleaner yourself. you've probably gone into some places where you just had to spray something to deal with it.

It was so bad. and so you did that. but yeah, spraying technology chemistries come along ways. we're learning some stuff, and it's all exciting.

And I think it's just gonna get bigger and better. yeah, so do i. and and that's that's a good thing. um, in in all areas.

Wouldn't mind an introduction to gavin if you don't mind. um, and so and so closing this down as we close off. obviously they can search I s s a but how can people get how can people find you? tell them where they find your show.

Um, what formats is it on? and how can they reach out to you? sure, we we have it on a youtube playlist under the clean facts tv youtube channel. you can send me an email at jeff cross at ic dot com. I can answer any questions anyone has, but basically, and I know it's tough to remember stuff, but I used to say dot com is pretty easy.

Yeah, it's I s s a like lisa dot com, but we don't call it that. and and there's a drop down menu. that media tab takes you to each publication, and my email is pretty easy.

So jeff cross at isis st dot com um, and google, of course we'll find you, but i'm always looking to talk to people and get topics for our publications.

We always need good writers, technical writers, those who are experts in the industry, and, of course, more guests on straight talk. which I guess now i'm gonna have you on. well, that would be great. yeah, um well, I really appreciate your time you're taking the time.

Uh, if I if I if I can get across the border in november, I will see you in vegas. and maybe we'll have a coffee or definitely, uh, you know, meet face to face. i'll be nice.

And I appreciate you taking the time and, uh, appreciate you appreciate what you're doing for the industry and and having your own show and and spreading the word we need more people doing it. so thank you for absolutely.

Yeah. you and I were at the show two years ago. we probably walked past each other. who knows? probably. I hope I do hope you can escape canada in november.

Well, we're pretty far behind on as far as the vaccines go. uh, but i'll leave that to the powers that be a couple months ago. so we'll see where things go, but, uh, jeff, and just make it so it's jeff cross, but it's j e f f. some people might think g o f.

And, uh, thank you very much for your time. and ladies and gentlemen, you've been watching clean freak. we come to you on tuesdays 12 pm pacific. and i'll see you next tuesday at 12 pm. yeah, yeah, yeah.



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